Top Nest Learning Thermostat - 2nd Generation T200577 review

List Price : $249.00Price : $249.00Code : B009GDHYPQ* Special discount only for limited time

Product Feature

• Auto-Schedule - Remembers the temperatures you like and programs itself
• Auto-Away - Saves energy by automatically turning itself down when you're away
• Remote control - Connect the Nest thermostat to Wi-Fi to control it from your smartphone, laptop or tablet
• Easy install - Most people install the Nest thermostat in 30 minutes or less

Product Description

The Nest Learning Thermostat learns what temperatures you like, turns itself down when you're away and can be controlled from your smartphone, tablet or laptop.

Product Detail

• Amazon Sales Rank: #24 in Home Improvement
• Color: Stainless
• Brand: Nest
• Model: T200577
• Released on: 2012-10-14
• Number of items: 1

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Nest Learning Thermostat - 2nd Generation T200577 - Amazon.com
See larger image . A Thermostat for the Smartphone Generation The Nest Learning Thermostat learns what temperatures you like, turns itself down when you're away and
Nest Learning Thermostat - 2nd Generation T200577
I purchased 2 Nest 2nd generation thermostats from the company store this summer. I am an engineer who in the electronics industry. I am tech savvy, build computers
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Nest - 2nd-Generation Learning Thermostat - Stainless-Steel
Nest - 2nd-Generation Learning Thermostat - Stainless Keep your home cozy with this Nest T200577 Learning Thermostat that remembers the temperatures you like

Product Reviews

856 of 880 people found the following review helpful.
Has a tremendous amount of potential, but can't recommend in current state
By cd2000
I'm an HVAC technician who's installed and troubleshooted this product in customer's homes for the past couple years and experienced the good, the bad, and the ugly. Let's start with the good.

Pros:

-It looks great. Personally I don't really care what my thermostat looks like but I know that is very important to many people and the Nest is unmatched in this area.

-When it works, it is hands down the easiest thermostat to install. The ability to sense wires and automatically configure the thermostat is a cool feature you don't see too often. They have a nifty wizard on their website that where you check the wires you have and it figures out what type of system you have and whether or not it will be compatible. Not that I really care, since this is what I do for a living, but for DIYers who have never done something like this before, it's nice.

-In theory, it can control quite a wide range of HVAC systems, including 4 stages of heating, 2 stages of cooling, dual fuel systems, and humidification/dehumidification.

-The customer service reps do genuinely seem to want to help, and there have been cases of them giving refunds even outside of the return period, or paying for visits by HVAC contractors to troubleshoot issues or repair damage caused by the thermostat.

-The auto away and auto learning seem to work as advertised for the most part and IF, a big IF, you didn't program your previous thermostat, they will save you energy. However your money would be put to much better use by spending 10 minutes reading the manual of your traditional thermostat and programming it (even if its unintuitive, it's not something you have to do often). Then, take that $250 and put it towards something that will REALLY save energy, such as tightening up your house.

-It has energy reporting which the Honeywell wifi thermostats lack (although the Honeywells are better thermostats in every other regard)

Cons:

-Reliability has been less than satisfactory. Instead of using good old reliable relays like most thermostats Nest decided to use what they call FETs (Field Effect Transistors) to control the equipment. They probably did this so they could give the thermostat its small form factor. Unfortunately, they aren't so reliable and tend to fail in the on position. The Y terminal (compressor) seems to fail pretty frequently causing A/C to run in the winter, sometimes at the same time as the heat. Some people do not have this issue, but for those that do, it seems to happen again and again no matter how many new baseplates Nest sends out. IMO it doesn't matter how many people don't have issues, the technology is plain unreliable and they need to stop using it. Besides the FET issue, software updates are pushed to the thermostat and the user has no choice on whether or not to accept them. Sometimes, they have bugs. The most recent one, 4.0, which the only purpose of was to add support for the Nest Protect, caused issues with some thermostats unable to power themselves. Some Nest owners found their thermostats unable to connect to wifi. Others found their pipes frozen as the Nest failed to turn on their equipment. Again, not everyone had an issue. But a thermostat is not an iPod. A buggy update is going to cause a much bigger problem than being without your music if you are part of the group that does have problems. They need to stop forcing updates on people (have a way to apply them at will) and test them extensively on their own systems before release.

-It's a power stealing thermostat. One big issue when you upgrade to any wifi thermostat is how to power it. To understand this issue, I will give a brief history of thermostats. Back in the old days, we had simple mercury thermostats. No need to power them at all! But then along came digital programmable thermostats. They needed power for their displays, memory, and possibly a backlight. The most common HVAC system in US consists of a basic single stage gas furnace, matched with a single speed central air conditioner. To control this setup, you need four wires in your wall going to your thermostat. This worked fine for old mercury thermostats. To actually enable the thermostat to power itself, though, you need a 5th "common" wire. But, most people only had 4 wires going to their thermostat location. Programmable thermostat manufacturers came up with two solutions to this. The most common solution was to make the thermostats battery powered. These were simple enough to install and worked fine, the only con was that you had to replace the batteries periodically. Another solution was called a "power stealing" thermostat. This thermostat robbed enough current from the HVAC control wires to power itself, but NOT enough to trigger the HVAC system. On older HVAC systems that just ran off relays, this worked fine. Fast-forward to the age of wifi thermostats. How to power these things? AA Batteries wouldn't work, because the wifi drew too much power. What MOST wifi thermostat manufacturers decided to do was FORCE customers to run a common wire to power the thermostat. Nest was not satisfied with this as they wanted to make their thermostat easy to DIY install, so they decided to implement power stealing. Nowadays, though, most HVAC systems run off control boards, which are often sensitive to attempts by a thermostat to rob power for itself and may not let it at all. So sadly, the Nest actually works better with old standing pilot furnaces than newer efficient ones, even though it is a thermostat that promotes efficiency. Huh? Luckily, Nest gives you the option to connect a common wire if you have one, so you don't need to rely on the power stealing. Unfortunately, this issue has just led to too many problems and too much confusion by consumers who thought that Nest would work with their system and then found they needed a common wire. For more on this, see a great blog post on their competitor Ecobee's site (a product which, by the way, I highly recommend): [...]. As you can see, not everyone will experience issues, but enough will that it is not OK to assume it will just work, and also it is possible for problems to occur even if it has been working for a long time due to changes in weather and battery capacity.

-"Heat Pump Balance" DOES NOT work as advertised and not only will it not save energy, it will use MORE by running backup aux heat way too much. You can turn that off and set your own lockout temperature for aux heat, but the minimum is only 35 degrees. Most modern heat pump systems can hold their own own down into the 20s. THIS IS A REALLY BAD BUG, IT AFFECTS ALL HEAT PUMP USERS. BE WARNED!

-It doesn't run multistage systems properly. If the Nest detects 1st stage is not keeping up, it will kick into 2nd stage. Fine, most thermostats do this. But then, instead of dropping back into 1st stage, it will stay in 2nd until it shuts off, decreasing comfort and efficiency. Finally, when recovering from a setback, it will ONLY use 1st stage, which takes way too long and makes it difficult to recover in time.

-Technical support isn't so great. Lately there have been ridiculously long hold times, and they don't seem to know what they're talking about. They are polite and professional, though, and I don't blame this problem on the agents, I blame it on the fact they aren't trained properly, which has to do with the next con...

-The overall attitude of the company. They do not communicate with their customers adequately to alert them of updates or problems. There is a community forum on their website that is quite helpful, and I highly recommend you visit it before purchasing. There used to be Nest moderators there, but they have all but abandoned it. There are many Nest users there though who put a lot of time into helping people solve problems and giving advice on how to best use Nest products. There are many complaints there, but they aren't "bashing" the products. Instead they give constructive criticism to Nest on where to improve, and ask for basic updates on what Nest is doing and whether they will fix these numerous issues. Unfortunately, instead of responding to the community members, they decided to make it un-indexable by search engines so prospective customers would NOT see this information. You can see for yourself. Go to [...] and view the source code of the page. You'll see . You can click "recent discussions" to see what people have been posting and feel free to create an account and ask any questions you may have.

-No adjustable temp swing or cycles per hour (other than selecting between radiant and forced air heat)

-Can't adjust % RH setpoint for humidifier automatically based on outdoor temperature

-Their implementation of emergency heat for heat pumps doesn't work well with the majority of systems installed (see the comments thread for more detail).

-The energy reporting is kind of lame. It pales in comparison to Ecobee. Not enough cold, hard, data and too many meaningless statistic like "leaves".

-No hold mode. Really guys, $20 programmable thermostats have this.

Conclusion: Would I recommend this product? Not currently I wouldn't. If you have a heat pump or multistage system, I absolutely would not recommend it. If you have your heart set on this thermostat and have a basic single stage system, be prepared that it may not work without a common wire, and be prepared for the possible reliability issues. Watch it closely after you install and be ready to return it within the 30 day period if necessary. And really, not even considering the reliability issues, is it worth it? I'm not convinced.

UPDATE 1/13/14: Nest has released a new version of their software, version 4.0.1, which claims to have all the new features of 4.0 but the performance of 3.5.3. The jury's still out on whether it does what they say it will: some people are reporting different issues they didn't have before, others say it fixed their issues. The good news, though, is that there is now a moderator on the Nest community, Brian, who is answering people's questions and helping them get the updates they need. While they still have a long way to go, it is good to see them moving in the right direction. Also, for those who don't know: Google owns Nest now. Make of that what you will, I won't comment on the privacy since everyone has a different opinion on that, but I am optimistic that the Google acquisition will accelerate the development of the product.

UPDATE 1/14/14: Nest's community forum is now indexable by search engines, including Google. Hmm... coincidence? I think not. I am feeling good about this transaction.

UPDATED 1/17/14: Added some pros and cons.

83 of 85 people found the following review helpful.
We REALLY tried to like this product...
By John Knoch
I purchased 2 Nest 2nd generation thermostats from the company store this summer. I am an engineer who in the electronics industry. I am tech savvy, build computers, troubleshoot networks, and fix most everything around the house myself.

I liked the look and concept of this product. A thermostat that programs itself, looks great, is easy to operate, and links directly to my multiple iPads and iPhones. There is even a plugin that makes it integrate with my MiCasa Vera home automation controller. It seemed like the perfect fit for our high tech AZ home. I love technology and understand that new products have growing pains, I usually only write positive tech reviews, but enough is enough...

The decision: We had two old tan box thermostats on our walls. They were programmable, but barely so. When our electric bill hit $500 over last summer enough was enough. We invested in two nest thermostats.

The installation: I installed the thermostats myself. I had a few questions so I took a picture of my wires and emailed it to nest. Installation support was good. I was able to get them running within about an hour. There was a minor issue with changing the o to b on one of my systems to get it to cool instead of heat. In AZ in August this is important...

First sign of trouble... I came home from work a few days after installation and on the main house system the fan was blowing but no cooling was on even though the thermostat was displaying blue indicating cooling demand. I turned the thermostat on and off and this resolved the issue. Concerned, I called tech support and the advised me to reaload the software. Really? Ok... Whatever. I did this and a few weeks later the issue happened again. Does not seem like it was ever resolved.

More trouble... Woke up @ 3am to 85 degrees on our bedroom system. Bedroom nest was off with green flashing light. After trying multiple resets I was able to get cooling working so I could get some sleep. This worked ok for a day or so, but I noticed that the fan wire was no longer registering power. Soon afterwards my system was stuck in heat! In AZ! In August! I called a technician to come out. First guy was not familiar with nest so needed to get another guy the following day. Next guy installed a relay to isolate the fan wire from the logic board and a jumper to reverse the polarity of the reversing signal. Troubleshooting indicated a bad o/b terminal. Called nest support and after 30 minutes on the phone they sent me a new back plate. This arrived after a couple days I installed it, removed the jumper, and the system was fine. Total extra cost $250 for troubleshooting and 4 hours of my time.

Wifi issues... I have a fairly standard network with two apple airport base stations. One is bridged to the other so they operate like a single unit. My bedroom nest would now drop connection every 10 minutes or so. Very frustrating. I tried many things to fix and spent hours on the phone with support. Finally the issue stopped. None of my other wifi devices have trouble like this. They just work. Still not sure why this happened or what fixed it.

More issues... Now back to the main house system. Woke up and living room was warm. Fan blowing, ac off. Service found bad capacitor and replaced but fan still blowing continuously. Traced issue to bad g terminal on nest base station. After 45 minutes on the phone with tech support (even though I told them the diagnosis from the start) they agreed to send out another base plate. Fan still running continuously... Checked tracking and base station was shipped ups ground! Why would they do that? Called back and after another 30 minutes on the phone they sent another base plate overnight. This one arrived today and fixed the issue. Now we are 2 for 2 on bad base plates within the 1st 3 months!!!! Another 4 hours and $150 spent on troubleshooting.

More wifi trouble... Now the living room nest is having wifi trouble like the first one. Tried a bunch of initial troubleshooting and resetting procedures with no luck. Very frustrated... Dread calling support and going through their standard questions when I already know there is no issue with my equipment... Just shoot me...

All in all, this could be a great product, but implementation is poor, and there are problems with the base plate circuitry. I have read other similar posts and it is not clear if the issues are resolved. With regards to wifi this is very frustrating and ridiculous. Wifi should just work. I have top of the line routers and great signal throughout. Why all the issues?? With regards to service, I wish that if there was trouble they would dispatch an expert to my house for repair. The best I seem to get is technicians with marginal knowledge of the product who ask me to deal with nest because they do not have the time to talk to support. Then, I need to pay them for their trouble while I wait for nest to send parts that I need to install. Why do the technicians not have base plates already available given all the issues people are having?

I still have my thermostats, but 2 base plates, several hundred extra dollars, and multiple hours later I am far from excited about my thermostats. Instead, I wonder when the next troubleshooting session will start and what will happen next. With their Apple roots I would have expected that the founders would strive to make a product that "just works". Unfortunately, for whatever reasons exist, that seems not to be the case.

UPDATE 10/31/13

Based on a hunch and some research I was able to fix the wifi problem myself by adding a common wire. Both units are now working. It seems that for compatibility reasons these thermostats bleed power from the control wires in an attempt to not require a common, which not everyone has, but my experience is that a common is necessary to supply power for the wifi / display / etc... If the thermostat senses low power it appears to disable wifi first, which explains why it cuts in and out.

I did notice that a Nest representative commented on my review which is nice and shows that they do care about how they are perceived. However, I never received any follow up.

UPDATE 11/20/13

Nest did finally contact me a few weeks ago. Since everything is working now there was not too much to talk about. I told them that my expectation is that there should be no more issues and asked if I had the latest and greatest backplate revisions and if it would be worthwhile to send someone out to perform some diagnostics. They said I was up to date and this would not be necessary. They did ask me for my repair invoices and I sent them in. Have not heard back and not sure if anything will come of it.

UPDATE 12/1/13

We had another wifi dropping issue. This time I noticed that both Nest thermostats were using or trying to use the same ip. So, I made them static using the MAC address and the issue went away. Still nothing from Nest on my invoices.

751 of 818 people found the following review helpful.
2nd gen problems solved
By mtnac
As a certified licensed HVAC contractor for 32 years and Certified Nest Reseller in Scottsdale Arizona I have personally re-installed and troubleshot over 50 of the Nest thermostats. We like the Nest and it's concept though we have been experiencing multiple problems with regards to error messages, units operating erratic, systems switching from ac to heat, compressors cycling into internal overload, burnt up control boards and relays to name a few. I do admit it's great for business, though once we show up for service, we now own the call and are responsible for making the system work. The newest problem was this last week on a commercial building with 4 new AC units on the roof and 4 new Nests. We have logged in 6 additional non chargeable hours to troubleshoot and replacements in a 1hr job to change out all 4.
To keep it short, these are the facts;
*Installed 4 nests, all AC units are same brand, 2 Nests are functioning
*Nest #1, installed, ran for 1 day went into heat, troubleshot replaced control cable and determined bad base, replaced with new from supplier. Installed new Nest, ran 3 cycles, began chattering compressor contactor relay (shorted from 26v to 16v) and compressor went off on overload. Replace Nest with conventional thermostat, unit is now operational for last 2 days.
*Nest #2, customer wanted nest in his office, shut off system power, removed Nest head, relocated line in office, reinstalled base and applied power to system, Nest displayed error message on G terminal as no power and system had no fan, removed head metered lines and jumped fan circuit and fan came on. Replaced Nest with conventional thermostat, unit is operational.
*I called the Nest Tech support and was informed that there is a problem with the "FET" (field effect transistor) inside of the base that they are having problems with. Talked with commercial support for 45 minutes, there was nothing they could help with that we have already done.
UPDATE 9-22-2013

9-22-2013
We are a licensed HVAC contractor in Arizona. We have discussed with product support and consulted for an hours with Nest service techs of multiple problems associated with 2nd generation thermostat subases.
Problems found installing new Nest thermostats that will result in complete Nest replacement and possible component replacement include;
*wiring errors in the G terminal after running for a week
*failure to operate fan with relocation of Nest from one office wall to another office wall
*uncontrollable
*compressor relay chatter and compressor overload shutdown
*system going into heat while in cooling mode
*ac units tripping breakers
*costly control boards on ac units shorting out and needing to be replace
*system settings changing from O to B and going into heat mode
*ac units running without the Nest head installed
*wifi not responding to commands with regards to setting changes

11-6-2013 UPDATE
Been working with the Nest folks regarding the issues associated with the sub bases and the 2nd generation Nest. We have found that the upgrade to 3.5.1 has been successful! The installations have gone well with the last 6 Nests that we have installed. We suggest installing your Nest without using the C terminal and configuring the wi-fi as well that will automatically install the upgrade to the Nest. DM Nest Learning Thermostat - 2nd Generation T200577